Nearly a year ago; writer, podcaster and symphonic metal enthusiast Simon McMurdo released his first book Nightwish On Track: Every Album, Every Song as part of the On Track Series. This book goes into every detail about every NIGHTWISH album and song there is out there. Rock Out Stand Out’s Lotty Whittingham spoke to Simon about the book, Nightwish and mental health. Here is what happened.
First of all it’s a pleasure to meet you.
Likewise.
I absolutely loved your book. The detail you go into is astonishing; where did the idea to write a book about every Nightwish album and song come from?
So the book Nightwish On Track is part of the On Track series. I was reading the Kate Bush one of that series and I looked in the back which had a list of all the ones they had released so far. Of course there’s the big names such as Iron Maiden and Metallica; then I saw Opeth as part of that series and I was thinking if Opeth have their own book then Nightwish definitely should have one. I feel like they have a similar level of success.
So I contacted the publisher, I told them what I was proposing to do and asked if they were interested. I knew it was a long shot. I’ll be honest, it happened so fast; they said yes they would love me to do it and could I have it done by October. This was the end of July. I said yes and immediately started work on it but thankfully twofold; first of all, I love Nightwish so all of those teenage years I spent reading everything about them really paid off and second of all, I do a podcast where we’re going to do a new season about Nightwish. It will follow a similar theme to the book so each episode will be about a different song so I did have some research already done.
Writing a book in that time frame was quite a challenge but I absolutely love doing it as I adore Nightwish and for the most part, it didn’t feel like work because I love discovering new things about them and I love delving into the interviews about them. It was an absolute pleasure.
It’s like watching quiz shows and they have a specialist subject and that’s when all those years of reading things comes in handy.
Absolutely, here’s a bit of trivia for you; my tinder profile actually says If I was on MasterMind, my subject would be Nightwish but I think I would fail on General Knowledge. I’m more of a specialist, I don’t know much about anything else.
So as well as knowledge you built up over the years about Nightwish, were you able to find anything brand new in such a tight timescale?
I did, one of the best things I found is called The Way Back Machine. It looks at archived websites so we’re talking back when the internet was in it’s infancy and websites were black pages with white text and one photo of the band. That was really interesting to me as there were lots of interviews that I hadn’t read before so that was really fascinating.
The way that Nightwish deal with the media and the press has changed drastically. I think it has for so many other bands. You become wise to journalists and the media but back then they [the band] were very honest with the media. They would rip apart their own music, one of my favourite learnings for this whole thing is how I couldn’t find them saying a nice thing about their EP Over The Hills And Far Away, I think Tuomas [Holopainen] called Away a piece of crap. Nowadays, every band comes out with a new album and exclaims “this is our best album yet, you’re going to love every song” so it’s quite refreshing to see them disregard some of their own songs, even if I disagree. Marko [Hietala] for example didn’t like Sacrament Of Wilderness. I think we’ll be having words [laughs].
So that was a great bit of research but also, I know this is going to sound arrogant, when you’re a huge fan, you tend to think you know everything about them. Until you sit down and do the research, then you realise that you don’t. It’s part of why this was so rewarding because I was loving going on that journey and picking out things I could put in the book as well.
I do know what you mean. As someone who reviews albums, particualarly a favourite band, you think you know everything but then you ask yourself ‘do I?’ when doing the research.
Indeed and the wonderful thing about being human is that everyone gets Imposter Syndrome. So the moment I signed that book contract, my mind told me ‘you know nothing about Nightwish’. You have to push through it sometimes.
I had it really bad towards the end of last year, it had gotten to the point where I even doubted on continuing with Rock Out Stand Out. Infinity’s Wings by Skyblazer really helped save that motivation and allowed me to power through.
The power of music really is incredible. It’s why you write your blog, it’s why I did my book. The way that music touches us is incredible, it feels like closest thing to magic.
As a fellow Nightwish fan myself, I would love to know how you came across them.
I was really into Evanescence. Symphonic Metal and Gothic Metal aren’t really as mainstream in the UK, Evanescence for many of us were a gateway into those genres. Bring Me To Life was number one in the UK, it was everywhere and I was thinking that this was such a cool sound.
By complete luck, the guy who lived next door to me was a keen metal head. He knows everything about metal and he heard this thirteen year old boy living next door was really into Evanescence. He said to me ‘you should listen to this band’ and he handed me a copy of Wishmaster. At first I didn’t like it, I thought ‘opera? what is this? this sounds like devil music’ but the band name stuck with me as I got into bands like Within Temptation. I was reading a Metal UK Media magazine, I think it was Metal Hammer or Kerrang, and Nightwish came up again. It was when they released Nemo and like a lot of people I thought ‘what Nemo, like the fish?’ [laughs] So once again they got a second bit of my attention and that’s when I absolutely fell in love with the band. At that point I was more familiar with alternative music, it was less scary. It honestly changed my life.
I took a risk as I didn’t have a lot of money when I was younger and I spent £10 on Once. At the time, that was a huge risk as I had only heard Nemo and I’m proud of how tatty the album booklet is as I played that CD so much. I can’t believe it still plays now as it’s so scratched, the booklet is in pieces but for me that’s a testament of how much I loved it. They then re-released it as Platinum Version so I can keep that as a nice clean version [laughs]
Speaking of the song Nemo, I think I came across it by chance when I was a child and it was on Kerrang! A few years later, I came across them when they had released Dark Passion Play and I looked them up on YouTube. I had hear of Bye Bye Beautiful, which was good but it was the song Amaranthe that drew me in. I bought the album Dark Passion Play after that.
So that was your hook.
Yes, that was my hook. One of my cousins is a metalhead and I asked if he knew any older Nightwish songs. He gave me a list and Nemo being one them, I found the video thinking how familiar it looked. They were the first symphonic metal bands I came across, I love how two completely different styles of music can come together and make this amazing sound.
Absolutely and I think I should mention as well that here in the UK, it’s not as well known unless you seek it out. I would never have heard gothic, symphonic metal in other way and it’s an incredible genre. I found I love really dramatic pop like Florence And The Machine, she has these swirly songs and I started to enjoy rock music so for those two worlds to come together, it felt like an absolute dream.
I was going to ask you what your favourite Nightwish album was but I think we covered that. Is it Once?
It’s so hard to choose a favourite. I think when you discover an album that plays a vital part in your life like your adolescence, it holds a special place in your heart. It’s not necessarily that Once is the best album, it’s just the one that has so much nostalgia for me and it was my discovery, for me I was discovering a whole new genre through this album. So it’s high on my list but I do love them all for very different reasons. You mentioned Dark Passion Play, I really loved that era where they became more accessible
Friends of mine who hadn’t heard of Nightwish before told me that they were going to after reading my book. I told them to skip to Dark Passion Play and Imaginareum because whilst Angels Fall First and Oceanborn are great albums, they aren’t very accessible. I advice to go to Once, Dark Passion Play or Imaginareum and then we can look at the rest.
I will always have soft spot for Imaginareum as it follows a story and I’m not sure if you saw the film that went with it.
I have yes, there are some incredibly striking scenes in that.
And given the themes, it links in with mental health. I remember you saying outside of this chat about Tuomas [Holopainen] struggled with his own.
Indeed and that’s why I was keen to talk to you, knowing that Rock Out Stand Out emphasise the importance of mental health because I think he’s a strong advocate. He describes Dark Passion Play as the album that saved his mental health because he purges everything is his music. Like the song The Poet And The Pendulum which could be macabre as he kills himself in the song and for him, it wasn’t anything like that, if anything it was liberating for him. I was always interested as that was such a personal song to him but he would perform it night after night. When I first heard it, I thought there is no way he will be able to perform it as it’s really raw but I think those performances served as therapy for him; getting out those demons and moving forward.
So I think for him creating that music and people listening to it, they know they aren’t alone and that’s so important. It’s probably why people connect with Nightwish so deeply, I think they have such a loyal fanbase and I think a lot of it is that Tuomas put so much of himself into that music.
The song Meadows Of Heaven is really comforting, I found this to be so after my Grandma died.
He [Tuomas] has a beautiful way of talking about mortality, I mentioned it in the book about how his opinion on it seems to evolve. It’s a scary thing in the earlier albums and during the later albums, especially in the songs Alpenglow and Harvest, it’s actually celebrated. They get the message across that we are so lucky to live, it’s our time to pass and that’s fine because it’s part of the way the world moves forward. It’s shaped my view of death as well, as people we think we need to be afraid of it and Tuomas is a great songwriter as he re-casts death as this hopeful and comforting thing.
Speaking about mental health, what’s awareness of it like in Nottingham?
Whenever I have needed any support, it’s been there for me. I think as well, we depend on our circles a lot of the time; as in our work circles and our social circles. We definitely do a lot within the alternative community in Nottingham for mental health. They’re always raising money for great charities and are really open about it.
I think it also depends on where you work, that’s also really important. I am really lucky that the place I work is really accepting, I work for Specsavers. They’re really great in that regard. Unfortunately, it depends on where you fall as whilst the employer may be great, they don’t get mental health. We’re getting there due to people like yourself talking about it and bringing it to the forefront. Our generation in particular vocalise it a lot more, we don’t just grin and bear it as we know we can get support and we deserve that support.
Is there anything you think we can do more of as family members, friends, loved ones so people feel more comfortable reaching out for support?
That’s a really good question. One thing I will raise is and I know it’s a hot topic, I still think there is a way to go with men and male identifying people. I think within in Nottingham in particular, they do a lot for men’s mental health and wellbeing. I don’t necessarily think it should be gendered in that way but culturally we have told men to suck it up. We’re seeing the impact of that now, the suicide rates in men compared to women is heartbreaking and it’s difficult. We’re definitely taking the right steps but one thing I would say speak to your male friends that meets them where they are at. For example, the way I talk to my Dad; I couldn’t outright ask “how are you feeling really?” because his immediate response would be “yeah, fine” when he isn’t. I come from quite a small town and they do men’s groups at local pubs; it’s a way for them to talk and it’s not necessarily them going down and having therapy, it’s a circle they can get that support from. So that’s what I always raise when the conversation of what can we do better is to bring men into the conversation at all times.
We are seeing a real change because our generation talk so openly about it and it’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s completely normal. I know the mental wellbeing status of my close friends and I think that’s a great thing because I can be a better friend to them when they need. I can then meet them where they are at. I think the place we’re at right now is much better than it was decades ago and I hope it will continue in that way.
Just to link this all back to the book, it was nice to have something to concentrate on and focus on. After I finished the book, I did feel a bit of loss and it made me realise how much I valued having something to work towards and that helped me understand myself. I do find when I am lost, I find I am a bit more depressive and more anxious as I’m not working towards anything. I know that’s not the same for everyone, I know some who love doing nothing and that’s their happy place but for me I found I need to have a goal and work towards it. That’s how I look after myself. It’s about interrogating yourself and finding out what works for you.
What do you like to do to relax and unwind? You mentioned you like to have something to work towards.
I do but I also try to enforce some downtime on yourself. I know some people can be workaholics and you don’t realise how much you need that time just to do nothing so yeah that’s important for me. I love to run because I can’t do anything else, I’m not a great runner mind but it’s a great break from my mind as I am always thinking. When you’re running and exerting yourself, you can’t think of anything else and that’s a great release for me. Then the endorphins are always great to.
Music also helps me unwind, it’s my life. When I am not writing about music, I am reading about it. I am always buying and listening to new music, reviewing it like yourself. Music really is a great escape for me.
Which three bands would headline your dream festival?
That is a good/horrible question [laughs]. I go to a lot live music events and with that mind, I have seen a lot of bands that I love; I’m going to avoid the ones I have seen quite a bit. I’m going to say Tristania, I would love to see; they were trailblazers in gothic and symphonic metal. Unfortunately they have disbanded so I am going to wait for the news of the inevitable reunion as everyone reunites don’t they?
I am going mix it up and add Loreen, the winner of Eurovision. She is incredible and a turning point for Eurovision, as it was often seen as gimicky. It still is to an extent. When she won with this mature pop song, people started to think that it should be taken more seriously and she won again last year. She is the first woman to win it twice.
My third one, I really think I should throw you a curveball and say Nicki Minaj. There would be about twenty of us at this festival but we would all get each other and I would love that.
Do you have a message for our readers and listeners?
First off, I cannot believe people are reading my book across the world and I occasionally get messages from people in say the USA and Belguim to tell me they have read my book. That’s incredible to me as I am nothing more than a fan, I studied English which helped writing a book but literally all the work that went into it was through the love of Nightwish. I would say to anyone who has written my book, honestly you don’t know how much it touches me. Whenever I see a new review on Amazon or someone messages me, I will screenshot those and send to my mum, my sister, my two best friends, my housemate because I am so excited people read my book. I’m not very professional about it but I’m very excitable about it.
As for the blog, I think that it’s incredible. What you’re doing with it is fantastic and this is why I am so proud to be a part of the alternative and metal scene because we really care for each other and get each other. I think mental wellbeing is the biggest battle we have to face right now, blogs like yours are at the frontline of keeping it in people’s minds and making it a conversation. I think it’s incredible we open up that conversation more and more.
Thank you so much for speaking with Rock Out Stand Out today Simon, best of luck with the book.
