Since 2022, VANITAS have wasted no time in establishing themselves as one of the best rising bands in the UK. Their innovative approach to creating music has seen them gain recognition and their following grows every day. Rock Out Stand Out’s Lotty Whittingham caught up with band members Jade Maris, Mitchell Barlow, Elijah Stoner, and Jackson Cann a month after their debut EP Chaos Theory was released. Here’s what happened.
Chaos Theory has had great reception from fans and the press. I know we’re all gaming nerds here – I first read the title and thought of Sonic the Hedgehog, but then I realised that’s Chaos Control.
Mitchell: There was a tiny bit of Sonic in there.
Jade: Put it this way: I came up with the name mainly because it linked in with the lyrical themes quite well. Obviously Mitch heard it and thought, “Oh – Sonic!” Then Jackson heard it and thought, “Oh – Jurassic Park!” So they both approved of the title because of those reasons.
So would you say it’s nerdy musical goodness?
Mitchell: Definitely.
Jade: Hell yeah! It’s what we’re all about.
You released singles leading up to Chaos Theory. What was your process when it came to deciding which songs to release?
Jade: Good question. Honestly, with the singles, they came in the order of when they were written, but I think it worked for the best. ‘Grey Morality’ is still one of my favourite tracks on this EP, and it was one that got some heads turning, so it was good to start with that to set the tone. ‘Lies’ was a good single type song, shorter and very riffy; again, showcasing a different side to us. ‘E.D.G.’ was super heavy with a proggy chorus. I really think they helped to summarise what the EP would be, and then when the EP dropped, we released ‘Queen of Nowhere’ on the same day with the music video.
Weirdly enough, even though ‘Chaos Theory’ – the title track – didn’t get a music video, I think it still did quite well. This was unintentional, but by naming the one song that didn’t have a music video release [titularly], I think people naturally stumbled upon it when searching for the EP, and therefore listened to it. It worked out quite well.
Speaking of the title track, there were some parts that took me by surprise. Can you tell us some more detail about that song?
Mitchell: ‘Chaos Theory’ was honestly very true to its name, in that it was the most chaotically written song ever. When it came to the acoustic intro, I have been setting myself a little goal of working on entirely new things that I don’t already do on guitar; and if I can write them into the songs going forward, cool.
It just so happened that when this EP was being written, I was trying to get good at finger-style acoustic guitar, because I have been listening to a lot of Irish folk, and I also have an absolute adoration for Opeth. I can’t name a favourite Opeth acoustic intro, but I really like the one in ‘Chaos Theory’. It’s cool, it’s slightly different, and if I really nerd out for a second, it was inspired by two separate songs: ‘Cry of Achilles’ by Alter Bridge and ‘Blackwater Park’ by Opeth. Both of those have moments featuring an acoustic version of the riff going into a heavier version of the riff.
It comes after a mesh of heaviness, so like you say, it’s something different that keeps the listeners on their toes.
Mitchell: I would say it’s the most traditional metal song on the EP. There’s still a lot of modern, progressive, and djent metal going on, but it is a bit more traditional sounding. I think that’s what makes it a bit different to the rest of the EP. It’s a little bit more chill as well, as the rest of the EP is very heavy. ‘Chaos Theory’ is heavy in a different way. It’s one of my favourite songs to play live.
Speaking of live, how did your launch show for Chaos Theory go?
Jade: It was amazing – it was packed. We had people singing along who knew the lyrics, which I wasn’t expecting, as the EP only dropped the day before. We had full-on moshpits and waving. I had envisioned this live show to be more like a theatre show, having the highs and lows and the dancing moments. I am really happy with how it turned out. We played our whole discography minus two songs; it was our first hour-long set.
A special moment was when we had got our friend Mike to recreate our song ‘Carry On’ as an orchestral piano ballad, so the boys went off the stage and it was just me with a backing track, singing a ballad version of ‘Carry On’. I wrote that song about my granddad who passed away, so it was a special moment for me to remember him and bring passion back to that too.
With your lyrical content, you go deep, and they’re lyrics we can all relate to.
Jade: For me, that’s partly why I make music. It’s about expression; it’s about catharsis. If I wasn’t being completely honest and personal, I wouldn’t feel that catharsis. Once you put a song into the world, it isn’t really yours any more, and people are going to interpret it in their own ways. I know quite a few other musicians who say that as well. Whether you’re listening to ‘Carry On’ thinking about a loved one you have lost, or whether you have interpreted it in a different way, it’s completely fine. I hope you get what you want out of the song.
The way I see it is that it helps me cathartically when I write a song, and it’s a different experience when I then play it on stage and see everyone’s reaction. I could be singing the saddest lyrics I have ever written with a grin on my face, as it’s in a different context when you’re on stage in front of people. It almost helps the song develop and become its own thing, even after its release.
Mitchell: I would say ‘Chaos Theory’ is a great example of that, because lyrically it’s one of our darkest songs.
Jade: I would say it is too.
Mitchell: It really is – but we all have too much fun playing it live now, I think! [laughs]
Jade: For sure! If you don’t mind me saying, Mitch – Mitch and I had a disagreement over this song when I first wrote it – [both laugh] – mainly because I was in a dark place, and I wrote some very depressing lyrics about not feeling very good and being depressed. The bridge was originally a call-back to ‘Ghostly Coast’, in which the lyrics were super hopeful. I was going to use those and flip them around, but Mitch told me I couldn’t do that to his baby ‘Ghostly Coast’. It wasn’t a proper argument; I showed him the first demo and he was really sad. I hadn’t seen a reaction like that from him before. At the time it was quite emotional.
Now that we are on the other side of things, it’s fine to talk about it. Through the way life carried on, and with the EP released, it’s now a cathartic moment to look back on. Sometimes I still feel the way I did within the lyrics, but luckily it’s way less frequently, and like Mitch said, it’s the most fun song to play live.
How did ‘E.D.G.’ go down at the launch show? I’m very curious.
Jackson: Insane.
Elijah: I’m glad we got pits going. That was a highlight right there.
Mitchell: ‘E.D.G.’ went down very well live. I think it’s the most “caveman” song of ours. Not saying it’s stereotypical Vanitas prog, but it’s very caveman. It got people very hyped.
Jade: We got moshpits before ‘E.D.G.’, but they were very stunted because of how many different sections and changes we tend to have in our music. They’re over before they’ve had a chance to begin. In this song, we wanted to write a long, heavy bit that people could get into, and it worked. It was funny at the launch show, because you had the full-on moshpits, and then the chorus came in and everyone stopped the moshing and waved in the air. Verse two began, and the moshpits started again.
This is what I want for Vanitas’s live shows: I want people to mosh, laugh, cry, and dance. I want all the emotions in a Vanitas show.
What do the letters in ‘E.D.G.’ stand for, out of curiosity?
Mitchell: A great thing in Vanitas is that I come up with the dumbest demo names. ‘Secrets’, for example, was called ‘Canty Cube’ because it’s Spiritbox-esque in my head, so box = cube, and our manager Canty wanted me to try to write something heavy and single-like.
Jade: Canty is our manager’s nickname.
Mitchell: The inspiration for ‘E.D.G.’ was Devin Townsend’s old stuff such as Strapping Young Lad. And what’s the opposite of a strapping young lad? An elderly, dashing gentleman! And then we couldn’t rename it as we couldn’t think of an appropriate name, so we took “elderly, dashing gentleman” and shortened it to ‘E.D.G.’
Jade: It’s really funny, because ‘E.D.G.’ is quite a heavy song, and then you have the emotional chorus. Weirdly, the title works in a hardcore setting as well, and I love the idea of people wondering whether the initials mean something really deep. No, it’s just a dumb demo name shortened down. I like that little Easter egg, so we’re trying to go as long as possible before someone finds out.
‘E.D.G.’ came out at the right time, specifically when my mental health started to crash. It was what I needed.
Jade: That means a lot to hear. It’s weird, because it’s me writing my lyrics feeling angry, sad, or excited; normally the emotions are gravitating. So it’s weird to see that [resonating with] others, and then people messaging me saying how much the lyrics meant to them. It reminds me that other people hear my lyrics and understand them. It’s still a baffling concept to me, and it means so much; I’m so glad you got something out of it.
Of the tracks on the EP, which one was the most challenging to put together?
Elijah: ‘Queen of Nowhere’ for me.
Mitchell: For me, it’s a tie between ‘Queen of Nowhere’ and ‘Chaos Theory’. ‘Chaos Theory’ was really stressful because every other song had a month in the oven, if you know what I mean. ‘Chaos Theory’ took a week at most, because truth be told, we were aiming for a five- track EP, and then realised we didn’t have a fifth track. So we put together ‘Chaos Theory’, and it was the quickest songwriting we had done in this band. That was stressful. ‘Queen Of Nowhere’ is a behemoth when it comes to playing it.
Elijah: For me, with ‘Queen of Nowhere’, it was [challenging] learning it and trying to dissect it.
Mitchell: ‘Queen of Nowhere’ is probably the most prog song we have done. The intro is one of the dumbest rhythms known, because I wanted to do a Rush ‘YYZ’ reference, and that was basically it.
Jackson: The intro to ‘Queen of Nowhere’ was fine for me; it was ‘E.D.G.’ I had trouble with. The intro is pure blast beats for a solid fifteen to twenty seconds, which is hard anyway; yet we persevere and power through. Then, getting the prog down: I had to write the time signatures on my hand at one point when I was practising.
Did you have the time signatures on your hands while playing live?
Jackson: I had got used to them by then. There was one hiccup one time I played it, but I managed to recover from it.
I would like to touch upon neurodiversity, particularly the term “masking”. Do you find that writing and creating music helps you unmask?
Jade: Yes, definitely when I’m on stage. Also, not to be soppy, but when I am around the guys. We played Burn It Down Festival in Torquay for the first time [in 2024]; I stayed in a house with these guys, plus the Vanitas crew who are some of our best friends. It was a house of eight of us for the weekend, which was heaven as we all get each other, we all vibe, and I don’t feel the need to mask.
It’s jarring when I have to go back into an environment where I need to mask a bit, especially for work. I do feel a bit of the masking when I do the networking side of the band, where you have to find the balance of being businesslike and not coming across as “weird”. I do find that tricky sometimes. I am good at taking a compliment, but I’m not good at saying anything more than, “Oh, thanks!” I have now come up with a tactic where if someone compliments me, I say, “Thank you,” followed with a compliment about them.
Mitchell: I am at my most unmasked when we’re performing, purely because you can’t ignore the impulsive parts of your brain; and when I play live, I listen to every impulsive thought imaginable. So if my brain says to spin, I will spin. We have a whole intro where I come out “Beyblading” now, which is essentially me spinning across the stage.
Jade: Sometimes I will be in the zone singing, and then I notice Mitch Beyblading. As for masking, it depends on the situation I’m in.
What would you like people to know about how masking impacts you? Especially from a neurodiverse perspective, and how exhausting it can be.
Jade: I think it’s important to find a group of people whom you feel comfortable to be yourself around. If you’re struggling to find those people, try to make a safe space for yourself where you can be yourself in your own company, and that will naturally help you attract people who vibe with you.
Mitchell: I think one important thing to say about masking is that it’s very social battery-draining. If I say I don’t want to talk because my social battery is drained, it’s not me being a dick or anything like that; it’s purely because even talking hurts my brain. Formulating sentences gives me a headache, and it’s hard to fathom how horrible the experience is; I would love to talk, but I can’t have a conversation right now. A lot of people don’t seem to understand this, and they take it personally. It’s a physical limitation.
Imagine masking like a phone battery: I can use my phone when the battery is full, but can’t use it when the battery is dead. Once the battery is gone, it’s gone. You are out until you get to a phone charger.
Elijah: A lot of the time, especially at gigs, I will go outside or backstage – not because I am being ignorant or don’t want to talk to people, but rather it’s the way I am, and I need to recharge.
Jackson: Same as what Jade said: find people you can be your full neuro-spicy self with.
What do you like to do to recharge after masking?
Jade: It depends on the situation. When it’s a gig, the performing part doesn’t drain me. I tend to be more drained before performing, as I worry about using my voice up; but as soon as I am off the stage, I feel like being more social. It’s the heavy band admin and the social media side of things that drain me, so what I do is stick my phone in a drawer or give it to Mitch, and vegetate in bed, watch Netflix, or play on my Nintendo Switch. Sometimes I go and see some friends, or play a game with friends; just something that isn’t band- or music-related.
Mitchell: There’s one particular YouTube channel that helps me recharge. I like to find something to hyper-fixate on for half an hour to an hour. I’ll probably never retain the information, but it’s something where I think, “I’m going to learn about this now.” For example, I had a really bad time where I was completely drained, so I thought I would hyper-fixate and learn about the Alien franchise, despite never having watched it. It’s something for my brain to get properly invested in and I can ignore everything else.
Jackson: I watch the same things as Mitch, explaining the entirety of said franchise. I also watch this YouTube channel called Roanoke Gaming. He’s in the science field in some way; he will pick up on a virus from a film, and make a video explaining how the virus would work in real life, and how screwed we would be if it happened. This really interests my scientific and gaming brain. I also like to switch my brain off and play Call of Duty.
Elijah: Video games are a big one for me. If we’re talking in terms of a gig, on the way home and in the car, I will listen to some chill music. It becomes an unwinding procedure.
We all love our video games here. Which video game characters can you all see being in a band together?
Jackson: My obvious answer is the end credits of Black Ops 2.
Mitchell [to Jackson]: I thought you were going to say that!
Jackson: Menendez and Woods [Call of Duty] in a band with Avenged Sevenfold would be perfect. I can see Link [Legend of Zelda] in a folk metal band on a lute.
Or the ocarina.
Jackson: Of course, that’s the more obvious choice. Ocarina metal!
Mitchell: I can imagine a one-man band scenario with Link, where he’s playing the guitar or lute, and then he’s playing the ocarina on one of those mouthpieces.
Jade: My combo would be the guy from Doom on guitar and Isabel from Animal Crossing on vocals, but in a way where she sounds super sweet at first but then growls.
Mitchell: I will go with a hyper-fixation answer. It would be the main character and Akechi from Persona 5. The main reason I can imagine these two in band is because the voice actors for both characters are musical theatre actors as well. They did a whole thing during Covid where they recorded a lot of musical theatre sass-off songs and put them on YouTube. So it’s both of them in character sassing each other and insulting each other while singing musical theatre songs.
Elijah: I think the Kingdom Hearts characters in a J-Rock or J-Pop band.
Mitchell: How could I forget the “Dance, water, dance” guy from Kingdom Hearts? His boss battle features him playing guitar and shooting stuff. [laughs]
Do you have a message for Vanitas fans and Rock Out Stand Out readers?
Mitchell: Thank you for supporting our neurodivergent, silly metal band.
Jade: Please look after yourselves and do what makes you happy.
Find VANITAS on their official website.
